Guns & Patriots

2011: Year of the Small 9mm

They say that what was old is new again, and that may just be the case for 9mm pistols this year.  After several years of the tiny .380 pocket-pistol craze, shooters are returning to the proven 9mm cartridge for self defense handguns.

The firearms industry is responding, introducing a number of new pistols in 2011 aimed at the concealed carry market.  While not every 9mm pistol introduced this year can be listed, here are a few of the highlights we’ll see on the dealers’ shelves in the coming months.

Kimber Solo – Kimber announced a sub-compact 9mm pistol at the SHOT Show called the Solo.  The Solo has a vaguely 1911 look, with melted edges and corners, giving it a very smooth appearance.

The Solo is a single-action, striker-fired pistol with a self-lubricating finish.  The 17 ounce pistols have a 6+1 capacity, a barrel length of only 2.7” and an overall length of 5.5”.

Features like three-dot sights, ambidextrous safety and ambidextrous magazine release give the Solo characteristics typical found only on larger handguns.

MSRP on the Solo is $725.

Boberg XR9-S – Under development for several years, the Boberg XR9-S is a revolutionary design in compact 9mm pistols, and will be available for sale this year.

The XR9-S uses what could possibly be described as a bullpup-style pistol, with the chamber at the very rear of the pistol, sitting just above the web of the shooting hand.  The magazine of the pistol is forward of the chamber, and as the slide cycles, a cartridge is pulled from the magazine, to the rear.

Using this design, the Boberg pistol is able to make a very compact pistol, yet retain a barrel longer than typically found in this size handgun.  Longer barrels in small pistols mean higher velocities for bullets, increasing the ability of hollow points to expand properly and stop violent attackers.

The XR9-S has a barrel length of 3.35”, which is the longest in this group.  And when compared to the same pistols, it still has the shortest overall length at only 5.1”.  The Boberg has a 7+1 capacity, and is rated for standard and +P ammunition.

The Boberg is undergoing final testing and should ship around mid-year.  Although the MSRP is not set, Boberg expects to sell the pistol for under $1,000.

Kahr CM9 – Introduced this year as a less-expensive alternative to the PM-series of handguns, the Kahr CM9 is a single stack 9mm pistol with a 6+1 capacity.  Kahr pistols are generally held in high regard for their quality and workmanship, so a lower priced alternative of the company’s PM-series is likely to be popular.

Unloaded, the CM9 weighs slightly less than 16 ounces, and has an overall length of 5.3”.  Barrel length is 3”. 

The CM9 has a polymer frame and a stainless steel slide and barrel.  The sights are the standard “dot and bar” typically found on a Kahr pistol, with the front sight pinned, and the rear dovetailed for drift adjustment.

MSRP is $565, and the CM9 will ship at the end of March.

Ruger LC9 – Several weeks ago, I listed the Ruger LC9 as one of the best new firearms of 2011.  I still believe this to be the case.

The LC9 is essentially the big brother to Ruger’s wildly popular LCP pistol.  Slightly enlarged to handle the full power 9mm cartridge, the LC9 maintains a small size, lightweight and rounded corners, but actually has good sights unlike the LCP. 

With an overall length of 6”, the LC9 may be just slightly larger than a normal “pocket gun,” but it is certainly small enough for easy concealment in a more traditional holster.

Already shipping, the MSRP on the LC9 is $443, which makes it the most affordable on this list.

Sig P290 – The new Sig Sauer P290 pistol is a diminutive 9mm handgun that deviates from the
classic Sig styling, and looks more like a squat P250 pistol.

The P290 uses a polymer frame, and it has interchangeable grip panels.   Polymer panels ship standard, but shooters can easily insert aluminum, G10 and wood panels for a custom fit and look.

The slide is machined from a solid billet of stainless steel.  Dovetailed sights sit atop the pistol, and are drift adjustable.  Barrel length is 2.9”.

A six round magazine is standard, but optional eight round magazines will be available as well.  With an empty six round mag, the P290 weighs in at 20.5 ounces.

With standard polymer grip panels and sights, the Sig P290 has a MSRP of $758, making it the most expensive of this bunch.  Options include a natural stainless slide finish, night sights and an integrated laser module.

Year of the 9mm?

The year 2011 may, or may not, be remembered as the Year of the Small 9mm by future firearms enthusiasts.  One thing that cannot be ignored is the consumers’ demands for choices in the concealed carry market.

For a variety of reasons, many people are not able, or willing, to carry a larger gun, but want more power than what a .380 ACP offers.  All of these 9mm pistols offers a substantial step up in cartridge performance, while maintaining a relatively small package.

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  • Guest

    It’s interesting that you did not mention the KelTec PF-9 which weighs 18.2 ounces fully loaded with 7 rounds of 9mm, is 7/8″ thick, 5 7/8″ long and costs less than any of the above. It isn’t pretty but in my experience and that of many reviewers it funtions flawlessly for it’s intended purpose. If there is a problem with this gun it’s that KelTec can’t make enough of them to meet the demand.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_34A6WBC4BETDFPBMPIKAAQKSNQ Keith

    I carry the Taurus PT-709 “Slim” with Hornaday’s FTX ammunition. It’s hard to beat for the price, but I have found it to be too slim for a good fit to my hand. It also will not handle the +P which has me considering taking a look at the Boberg when it is available. I hope they consider also marketing a custom holster for this gun as most manufacturers wont have anything the really fits it.

  • OlGeezer

    My wife has both a Bursa .380 and a Bursa 9mm. She likes them because of size, cost and ease of maintenance. They breakdown very easily, have only four parts and reassemble just as easily.
    It also seems to fit a woman’s hand better. She has stated that the others tend to be barrel heavy.
    She works in forensics and is also a private investigator and prefers the .380 because it’s lighter and therefore easier for her to conceal.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CVLAPL7AOWEZO2T5YRPNAWWK6E Michael Fallon

    I agree the 9mm is a proven cartridge now, but that was not always the case. With new bullet designs and faster burning powder, the nine can be effective. The problem with the .380, it is just too light and not powerful enough to be effective, except for close contact head shots. You forgot to mention an already proven 9mm pistol, that is the size of a .380, accurate, and reliable-the Kahr PM9.

  • Ccharlie1

    Only thing about the Bersa, is I don’t at all recommend using +P in them.
    In my 25 years of gunsmithing, I have had to rebuild a few that didn’t like the +P ammo.

  • 19gundog43

    Right on Johnson. Have had my KT-PF-9 for several months now and freaking love it. Carries very well with an inside the belt holster even with dress clothes. Slips in a jean’s pocket. Almost weightless, even when fully loaded. 7plus1 is great. Almost as accurate as my full size Ruger-P89 Special Addition. Only flaw is the mag release. Sometimes my big thumb brushes it and drops the mag a little. Not a good thing in a firefight. But I keep that in mind and try to keep my thumb lower. Best part is the price… under $300 here in FL. Best gun for the money anywhere!

  • JiminGA

    My wife also has a Bersa 380 because she has small hands and lacks a lot of strength to operate a bigger gun’s slide (we’re geezers too). After buying it for her the first thing I did was get a few 9 round mags that add a real small finger groove to the grip. But since this article is about 9MM sidearms we’ll take a look at them next time at the range/gun shop. Maybe it’s time to trade her up to a 9MM.

  • Guest

    There is a more detailed description of the Boberg XR9-S at http://www.bobergarms.com/notes/XR9_Shorty. The silouhette comparisons to the Glock 26, the Rohrbaugh R9s, and the Kel-Tec P3AT are pretty impressive. That Boberg wed page doesn’t give an MSRP either.

  • APRY

    I own a KEL-TEC p11 -it’s a great hand gun for conceald carry very low cost and easy to break down and accurate.I reccommend this very good 9mm hand gun for concealled carry.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5KQZG3LMFZOMYN2NCTVUTO7BWA Don

    Folks, after appreciatively reading everyones comments, I still prefer my baby glock 26 over any 380. I also have a sig 238(380) which I use when the situation forces me to do so. Love my baby glock.

  • APRY

    I own a Kel Tec P11 9mm luger—It’s less expensive then the others easy to break down and in my opinion,the best hand gun for Concealed Carry.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UDQ6YXAKHMAF6LS4EDIPROGFSA Chris

    I shot a buddy’s PF9 last weekend, putting about 250 rounds through it. I was both impressed and disappointed at the same time. Impressed due to the light-weight, yet remarkably low recoil and acceptable accuracy from such a small gun. Disappointed because we had 7 mis-fires in the 250 rounds (6 stove pipes, 1 double feed).

  • MacIndy

    I have the PM9 with NS and also the P380 Kahrs. Both are very accurate for small guns. I carry the P380 in summertime only because I don’t feel it’s enough power through heavy clothing (coats, etc.) Most of the time I am still a .45 ACP carrier with the P45.

  • 19gundog43

    Check your ammo… I don’t know what you were shooting but I use Winchester
    range level ammo and have never had a misfire or stovepipe. When I got my
    PF-9 I tried some really cheap off brand ammo just to experiment and had the
    same problem. Good quality ammo seem to work every time. Remington seem to
    be fine also. Keep trying different loads and see how they perform.
    Eliminate the problem ones. Also keep it really clean. Small guns can be
    temperamental sometimes.

  • bullet1943

    Somebody should do a study on either how really crappy the ammo is getting, or why modern guns misfire so often. Even big-name ammo seems to be giving fits to a lot of firearms. In recent weeks a friend of mine and me have had many misfires with relatively hi-quality firearms such as Sig’s and Walthers, and Rugers. The answer has inevitably been swapping ammo to find out what the gun likes. This shouldn’t be that way. It’d be nice if one could count on a gun shooting any ammo. I note that the only firearm I have that digests damn near anything, is my 1911 .45 ACP. I have a Taurus Millenium .45 that’s the same way.

  • cmblake6

    Of those you covered in the article, I want one of those Kimbers! As for small 9′s, I prefer a .45, but for those times when one needs something smaller I’ve got a P-11(#2 in favorites), a Star M-43(my #1 favorite of them), and an Astra A-75. For times when I can’t carry a gun I’ve got a P3AT. I highly recommend the KT brand for those who want a good gun at a good price. If I had stupid money handy, I’d own one of those Kimbers for sure.

  • cmblake6

    I’d rather like to swap my P-11 and P3AT for that PF-9 for KTs. I’d grab one of those Kimbers in an eyeblink!

  • Neonentity

    I’ve seen the same problem with the P3AT. A little material removed from the mag release button with a Dremel cured it without affecting functionality.
    I’m a fan of Ruger, but I hope they paid some royalties for cloning the Kel-Tec for their LCP.

  • GunnyRake

    Over the years I have carried .38 Smith M&P 4″ heavy bbl, 1911A1, Star PD, Ruger SP-101, .357 Smith Mdl 19 4″ bbl, Bursa .380 just to name a few. I have stayed compeletly away from the 9mm. Looks like it’s about time I got familiar with the cartridge, huh? This selection of small 9mm is what I have been looking for to augment my Para 12-45, my current concealed carry weapon. Don’t get me wrong: I love the Para, even if the rear sight did fall out in my hand at the range the first time I had it out!! It has power, good feel, extremely reliable (no missfires or stove pipes, double feeds, etc in over 2000 rounds). I need something a lot smaller with some stopping power for concealed carry. Thanks for the coverage of these new pistols. Plenty of food for thought.

  • 19gundog43

    So true- The P3AT did have some problems. Love the KT company, live down the
    road from their manufacturing plant. . They have just come out with a
    shotgun that looks awesome, have to wait to see how it performs. It is
    getting so you can hardly tell one small concealed piece from another. The
    upside is there is a huge market for this class of gun. Gotta be a lot of
    people getting their CCWs. Bad guys beware… we are armed!!

  • bombadil3642

    I see all the small 9mm as a move in the right direction but I own and carry a Walter PPK .32 that is very easy to conceal and use. It really has a stoping power that has to be seen to be understood. So my question is why a 9mm and what is new with the Walter line?

  • hicusdicus

    For every day carry, size and weight does matter. Having a piece of machinery on your person and concealed at all times can get tiresome. If in the back of your mind you never expect to use it the extra weight and bulk can get even more tiresome. This can cause you to hesitate to pick it up an leave home with out it. That will be the one time in your life that you will need it. We chose the LCP be cause of its convenience. Loaded with 100 gr buffalo bore ammo the ballistics go way up and are more than adequate for a civilian encounter. My UL public defender is a little over 7 inch’s and weighs 20.8 oz There is no comparison between a 9 mm and a Winchester .410 buck and ball head shot for instant deterrence. Since guns rarely wear out the marketing people need to keep coming up with new things to keep the consumer spending. They have sure figured out how to snag you by your trigger finger…. After the bullet leaves the barrel it does not matter what it came out of as long as it knows where it is going.

  • JingoJohn

    Sidearms are cool….about the same effective range as a thrown rock.
    I DO prefer them to rocks, and clubs for “up close, and personal” work.

  • billjohnso20

    I bought the LCP “Little Copied Pistol” when it came out. I no longer own it because it was junk. I replaced it wit the original—a KelTec P3AT that has never jammed and I have over 3000 rounds through it.

    I will not be buying the LC9 “Little Copied 9.” It is clear that Ruger yet again stole KelTecs design as it made clear when looking at both the LC9 an the PF-9 stripped. I already own the PF-9 which is the original small nine. It is as reliable as the day is long and only cost me $275.00 NIB. I’ve had it now for 2 years. It’s the only 9mm Luger handgun I own. It’s also the only one I need.

    I think it’s a crying shame that so many of those in the gun community, who think of themselves as enlightened, are so closed minded when it comes to all things KelTec. Come on people get your heads out of the sand.

  • apache6

    I’m with you and GEEZ,my wife loves her Bersa .380!! As for the 9mm the only thing proven is that it ain’t much of a stopper either.Bullet placement is everything so caliber comes in second!!

  • apache6

    Me too,JINGO!!

  • apache6

    DITTO,I have a Taurus 247.45,it holds 12+1,that’s a real unlucky number for some asshole one day !!!

  • kmurfnj

    I own both a Glock19C and a LCP. Out of the box, the first round out of the 19C was 1/2 from the “Q” at 25 yds. Enough said about that one. Ran 100 rds of Speer FMJ out of the LCP, just to get used to the stacked trigger. I was satisfied at the end of my session, but I knew it needed something more. Getting back to the house, ol’ ma was standing inside the door. As soon as I saw her it hit me. I asked her for the brightest nail polish she had. My LCP front sight now is bright pink. Went to the Dept. range to qual with both guns. The old goat not only smoked everyone with the 19C, but with the LCP also would have outshot most of them. I actually carry the LCP more often than the 19C. It’s quite comfortable, especially if you’re sitting in a vehicle on a long trip. It’s so light, I’ve even forgot I had it on. And as for fire power and range? Like I tell the rookies; you shot someone off duty outside of your house, that mutt better have GSR on him/her or life as you knew it will never be the same. And at that range, not much of a difference between a 9mm or a .380

  • blampp

    I thoroughly agree . . .

  • roadapple66

    I’m sure Ruger paid royalties for the Kel-Tec design. If not, Kel-Tec will make a fortune in court. I have owned a Kel-Tec P32, and a Ruger LCP. I have had no issues with either gun. The Ruger, when new, was so tight that it failed to completely go into battery a few times. I just shot it until it broke in. Now, it is smooth and reliable. I have always liked Kel-Tec’s designs. Their new shotgun is one I think I’m gonna have to have! The Rugers are just made to tighter tolerances, and take time to wear in. I’m sure the person who bought the LCP from you is pretty happy you thought it was junk.

  • JingoJohn

    Ahhhh, a fellow RIFLEman! Or, maybe I should have typed; rifleMAN!

    Sidearms are ok and have their place.
    Rifles & boots win wars and hold ground.

  • park245

    Any review of sub-compact 9mm handguns is not complete without including the Rohrbaugh R9s (www.rohrbaughfirearms.com). Introduced about 6 years ago by a small company on Long Island, this is one of the best pieces of quality American manufacturing ever. Only about 5000 have been produced and there are probably less than half that number of owners since, once you try one, you have to have more!! Check out the Rohrbaugh forum (www.rohrbaughforum.com) to see what owners think about their “pups”.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1641347284 Alex Sullins

    Just be sure they are all under 10 Round MAGS! Connecticut Bill Introduced to
    Ban Possession of All Magazines Over 10 Rounds!!! http://hoffgun.com/Email030111.htm

  • indianeric

    The Kimber Solo would be my choice if I had one! My carry 9 is Glock 26, very reliable.

  • indianeric

    The Kimber Solo would be my choice of the bunch. I now carry Glock 26 with Winchester SXTs, very reliable.

  • hicusdicus

    If you can throw a rock with effective range of a hand gun you need to try out for the major leagues.

  • hicusdicus

    Artillery kills and wounds more soldiers Than bullets could even come close to doing. Wars are won with superior supply logistics and massive artillery bombardments and air cover. Boots on the ground are used for mop up and securing supply lines.

  • hicusdicus

    Have you ever tried 100 gr buffalo bore? that is all we load or LCP’s with. Look it up you might be impressed.

  • hicusdicus

    lets hope you and your baby Glock never encounters a hostile ultra lite public defender loaded with Winchester XPD. You will not prevail. What ever the brand it still shoots a bullet. Bullets miss and are seldom instantly lethal. They also kill bystanders. A face shot from a hand held sawed off shot gun will stop a gun fight immediately. It is also very difficult to miss.

  • hicusdicus

    Check out buffalo bore ammo. they have a .32 cal cartridge. They will give you more power than a standard .380. My wife wants to know what you do with a .32 cal, use it as a stapler? She carries an ultra lite judge loaded with XPD.

  • Stevod

    Wow, MA is finally catching up to CA! /sarc

  • JingoJohn

    I did strike a nerve with a dyed in the wool hand gunner, rozyredtoes? No offense intended!
    I am a dyed in my Fathers wool and genetically passed along to me RIFLEMAN. BTW, he had me shooting a ACP-1911 when I was six, a .22 at 4, 30-06 at 7 or 8 and a 12 ga. at about 10.

    Rozy, you are right about wining wars…up to a point. I was making a short, flip remark, NOT intended to be a treatise on Clausewitz, Romel, Patton or Sun Tzu.

    1. Try HOLDING ground for useful purposes without boots.

    2. ALMOST anybody can throw a rock about 50 feet with some accuracy. ROUGHLY the practical, useful range of MOST sidearms.

    3. In the confrontational zone I GUESS would be about right in HOME DEFENSE, 5-15 FEET, a rock could serve rather well, given no other choices.

    4. As I noted in other posts, not including the flip remark noted supra, I speciffically mentioned HOME DEFENSE and eliminated attacking enemies or barricaded criminals.

    All the best to you and your loved ones, We ARE on the same team.

    Jingo

  • JingoJohn

    MOST artillery is a rifle. hahah

  • bottlesniper

    I carry a P3AT but keep a Bersa compact 9 handy at home or in the car if I am travelling through questionable territory. Both are reliable, though I will eventually upgrade the home defense weapon to 1911 – 45. If time permits a 12 ga pump is also relatively close. BTW, the Bersa 9mm is as accurate as I could need outside of competition.

  • oxbowrdd

    I teach the concealed classes for colorado, and have found a little sub compact double stack, 10 in the clip and 1 up the pipe, 9mm called a skyy, think its made in flordia, comes with 2 clips, so far reliable, have been using for my personal carry for a year, price is under $200.oo. dont have any long term use so not sure how it will hold up but so far i hae no complaints. also, god forbid, i would ever have to use it and law enforcement took it im not out a fortune.

  • hicusdicus

    gone

  • mycka5

    What about the FMK 9mmC1… haven’t heard any more about this sweet little package

  • sharpdog

    years ago, before they were discontinued I bought 2 kel-tec P40 40 cal subcompacts. 1 fired reliably and 1 misfired reliaqbly. Just before they were discontinued I bought 2 more. They have stiff recoil (I warm up for the P40′s by firing my .44 mags ROFL) but they are small and make great backup pieces IMHO. The recoil would not be so bad if Kel-tec rounded and perhaps filled the backstraps appropriately. Kel-tec should come out with a successor to the P40. As a bonus it takes the same ammo as my primary Sig 229.

  • thomasz07

    I have owned and carried a keltec p11 for several years now.wouldnt trade it for any of these.

  • bombadil3642

    I really like the .40 S&W. I also have a 1911 .45. The 1911 is what I started with and believe in it tottaly. The problem is everyone knows you are packing if your body is as big as mine. For Rozy your wife has got the right idea but even she must know that buffalo .32 with express loadout using hollowpoint with steel beads will puntch through kevlar at 25 ft. By the way the XPD is sweet!

  • mcs001

    Hello, great group … cool thread … I have big hands and tried the Kahr .380 (bogus) I have a Ruger LCP .380 and ya know what … I now carry a Kimber Crimson Ultra Carry II 45acp w/ 230gr hydra schock HP’s and It works great for me especially w/ the single stack 7rd mag … keep em postin … mcs

  • ArtNYC

    Blow to gun control advocates: Wyoming gun owners to get state constitutional ‘right to hunt.’ See ConservativeStates.com

  • lexiharley

    Hi everyone. I am trying to learn off here. My husband bought me a Springfield 9 mm. I liked it cause the safteis in handle and is triggerless so it won’t snag. Problem is I can’t pull it back. I have artritis and fibromyalgia. Sorry, I don’t know the gun language. Will it loosen up if it gets shot at a range??? I think it is called recoil. Or should I find something else?

  • lexiharley

    Hi everyone. I am trying to learn off here. My husband bought me a Springfield 9 mm. I liked it cause the safteis in handle and is triggerless so it won’t snag. Problem is I can’t pull it back. I have artritis and fibromyalgia. Sorry, I don’t know the gun language. Will it loosen up if it gets shot at a range??? I think it is called recoil. Or should I find something else?

  • BullHeaded

    Taurus Millenium Pro Pt-145. 10+1 round 45 acp. Carry 24/7/365 in Smart Carry rig with extra 10rd mag. Office environment and every where else. If not on my person (when I sleep), rig is at my side in a drawer. Never leave home with out it, 2 seconds for lead on target, maximum stopping power, accurate, small, reliable, part of me!

  • hicusdicus

    no its not!!!!!!!!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DLIPSRSCTU76Y2B5EEYHQS45GI Charles Turner

    According to KelTec’s www site the PF9 trigger has to fully recover forward or the next pull can be just a ‘click’. This has been my experience. Problematic for folks with thick fingers or who have trained with Glocks.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6RCY4ZFWJ5KJFGO45SP45HF22U old

    Hi lexiharley- I am not familiar with the particular pistol but if it is too hard to rack you might have other problems with it. Shooting will indeed loosen it somewhat but if your range has a gunsmith on site have him look at it. If there is no gunsmith on site ask some of the shooters you see there–I bet they will be glad to help.

    Contact information for Springfield
    http://www.springfield-armory.com/contactus.php

  • lexiharley

    Thank you Old……..but very wise. You are the only one I heard from. I am going to take your advice. See you are from AZ-Me too!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CYHIDFYV4SHJY6DKE3CK4WV7FE Mark Baer

    Lexi, I know what you mean. I’m getting older and recently had some nerve damage that weakened my left hand gripping ability. It’s a lot harder now to rack my HK USP 9mm semiautomatic, and I’m thinking the day may come when I’ll need to switch to a revolver instead. Shooting at a range won’t help, because you’re not going to weaken the spring – and even if you could, that would be another problem altogether. Take a look at some good revolvers at your gun shop.

  • lexiharley

    Thank you for the reply, Mark. It was a special gifr so I am going to have someone look at it just in case…….

  • sigp238

    lexiharley, hello! my wife had the same problem with the 9mm Sig that i bought her. So we looked around and found the Beretta Tomcat model 32 caliber. With this model you do not have to ratchet the first one in because the barrel of the gun pops open with the push of a button, thus enabling you insert the first bullet into the chamber, after that you just insert the clip and you are ready to fire. So one bullet in the chamber and seven in the clip gives you eight shots.

  • artymaj

    Being a great lover of all things Swiss Army Knife-like, I very much enjoy my Ruger SR9c! With the 10 round magazine it’s very concealable, with the 17 round magazine, it stacks up very well with many of the Wonder-9′s!!!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y53DB4ZUA5YS2D4HQZWFLFZSIA Michael G

    it might not have quite as much punch as the 9mm but I think I stay with my new Sig P238 380!

  • JingoJohn

    You were in artillery? So, MOST artillery is rifled..right?
    Therefore, a ‘rifle’…

  • hicusdicus

    I saw some video I don’t remember, maybe the military channel where there was a pair mounted on the top of some kind of armored personnel carrier. They demonstrated them and the fire power and destruction was unimaginable. I would give you goose bumps. The buffalo bore would probably be a good idea loaded into any weapon you intend for self defense. I don’t hand load nor do I want too so buffalo bore got my attention. I have a friend who is a state certified ballistics expert for the court. I get most of my information from him. He was also a ranger and just barely missed the Olympic shooting team. He said the most lethal weapon you can take to a gun fight is a 12 gauge. Most civilian get together s are close range and over quickly. You really should give some thought to the Judge public defender ultra light weight. It requires very little practice and in the 10 to 20 foot plus range with win. pdx you can do a head shot every time with out seriously aiming.. No one ever expects to have to shoot someone. But if you do, that is not the time to find out the weaknesses of a bullet loaded weapon. A .410 is just a down sized 12 gauge. It weights 1 lb 4.8 oz and is not much bigger than a snub nosed 38. When it is in your pocket and you reach in and grab it, it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, kinda like your are 15 again….. I would like to ad that WHAT clears that barrel after the hammer is dropped is what matters not the weapon itself.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7754LD5RFJM3OOL6XMCDH5HWHY Joseph

    what about the older 9s ? For everyday carry I carry a 9by 18 makorovand have shot several thousand rounds thruogh this pistol without a glitch and can empty the mag in center mass at 20 yards in a matter of seconds yet is more than accurate enough to take a head shot at the same distance with no problem.More power than the .380 but a little less than the 9mm par. For everyday carry I use hornady custom ammo but have practice with the cheaper brands with no problem. Take down is a keep it simple stupid affair and only takes a few seconds and carry with an in the pants holster is very comfortable because of its wieght and would have complete confidence that I could rely on this pistlol in a fire fight.I was in expert with the 9mm par berratain the military but in the military your pistol is used to fight to get to a rifle but in the civilian world a good, reliable revolver or pistolis what you need to suppress a threat and defend you and your family and with the mak. I know the bullet is comeing out of the tube and that is what count.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7754LD5RFJM3OOL6XMCDH5HWHY Joseph

    hi Lexi I am an agreement with Mark a good quality revolver would be a great alternative for you perhaps a .357 mag which you could shoot .38 or .38+p (same shell with a little more oomph than a reg .38).the .38 has less recoil than a .357 but can be shot in a .357 revolver but a .357 cannot be shot in a .38 cal. revolver.The reason I recommend .357 revolver is that you can use the .38 special cartridge until you get comfortable and than switch to the .357 for more power but remeber the .38 special is a proven cal. for self defenseso there is nothing wrong with staying with this cal.if that is what you feel comfortable with.Remember a revolver is inherently more reliable than a pistol anyway and is a lot easier to use for someone trying to get the basics of shooting down and even going to the range with a .22 revolver with someone to critique you on your fundamentals is a big help but practice practice practice and become proficient with whatever you decide.I hope this helped and good luck.

  • JingoJohn

    Why are they called rifled guns? Not smothebore??? Because they are rifles….

  • TABteam

    I, too, have a PF-9, but with the CT laser and the belt clip from Kel Tec. This light pistol does not need a holster with the clip and conceals in any condition. The trigger pull beat the hell out of the LCP, which is too long for many hands. The LCP is much more difficult to shoot than the PF-9. Why choose .380 when you can have 9 mm for 2 more ounces. The PF-9 is a winner in my mind.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ED5LZHHIUCCURQIIVMSNWNKC6A Bill

    I have some really good guns, but most are too heavy for carry. Such is the case for my little Para Warthog in 45 cal. So I don’t carry it like I thought I would. I have a Kel-tec P-11. It’s much lighter and holds 10 rnds in the mag. I like it alot. But the one I end up with the most is the Kel-tec P3AT. It finally dawned on me one day that the name stood for P-.380. I bought a Glock 26 (the Baby Glock in 9MM) She loves it, and it doesn’t kick much. If it came down to “GO TIME” I’d prefer to have my Glock 20 in a 10MM on me. Serious firepower there, way more than a .45, but the truth is I carry the little Kel-Tec P3AT more than the rest of them put together. I have other Kel-Tec’s (PLR-.223)(SUB), and I haven’t had trouble with any of them. I break them in real well b4 I carry them. When I pull the trigger I don’t like any suprises other than “BANG”. The biggest mistake people make is getting a gun, shootn’ it 2-3 times, and thinking it’s good to go. I want a track record of atleast 150 rounds w/no jams or troubles with some good ammo (hollow points) that I’m going to load up with when I carry that gun. The best carry gun for a gal (and maybe guys too) is a small .38/.357 Mag. revolver! They are a little clunky, but whens the last time you heard of one jamming? Mild Bill

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ED5LZHHIUCCURQIIVMSNWNKC6A Bill

    The “JUDGE” .410 are great, but to clunky/hvy for concealed carry. A 10MM small framed GLOCK will shoot through 2 car doors and take out the guy on the other side. The .410 is really good, but it won’t do that! Bill

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ED5LZHHIUCCURQIIVMSNWNKC6A Bill

    I have a Taurus Millenium .45 cal…….It’s small for a .45, and not tooooo hvy, but best of all it works, and the felt recoil is that of a much larger/heavier pistol like my colt .45s. Damn nice little .45! Bill

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ED5LZHHIUCCURQIIVMSNWNKC6A Bill

    Hi! Lexi, We’re ALL trying to learn here! I’ve run across this problem b4…… The only surefire cure is to go with a REVOLVER. If the trigger is too hard to pull, you can cock the hammer w/your thumb (very doable even w/ your condition) After the hammer is pulled back w/thumb, to pull the trigger takes about a 1/2 lb. pull which is verrry light. Also a REVOLVER is alot easier to work and understand, and they don’t ever jam.
    The Sprngfld is a great gun. You might try getting a lighter RECOIL SPRING. This would make the slide alot easier to pull back. BUT you need to shoot the lighter grain bullets so there’s not as much recoil because you just installed (hubby can do that) a lighter spring. Also (assuming ur right handed) you might try holding gun in right hand and leaning it sideways and puttin your left thumb on the right side of slide pointing down the barrel, and all four left fingers on the other side of the slide. Now the trick is not to PULL back on the slide with your left hand, BUT instead just hold it with your left hand and actually PUSH forward with the right hand. I have to use that method on the little bitty .380′s because ther guns are so light and the springs are so strong and they small and the gripping surface on the slide sucks. Try the new way to grip the gun. It’s kinda hard to explain, but if you play around with it, you may hit on it and find that it works for you too. Hope it does. Bill

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ED5LZHHIUCCURQIIVMSNWNKC6A Bill

    Check out the little Glock 10MM. Very dependable, even when dirty and mucho firepower. I thik it’s a Glock Model 29. I have it’s big brother the model 20. Most powerfull cartridge available for auto’s. Way more power that a .45 cal. but recoils like a .40 cal. Also the “Double Tap” ammo is full power 10 MM loads. Buffalo Bore is a good round too, but the other brands are really wimpy. What a difference 1 MM can make. Bill

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ED5LZHHIUCCURQIIVMSNWNKC6A Bill

    Yup! My little Taurus Millenium eats everything too. It doesn’t care if it’s .45 hollow points or hardball. They all feed and fire equally well. Bought it as a backup. Shot it and fell in love w/it. Put the Gold Cup and Delta Elite back in the safe and bought a shoulder holster for the Taurus. And best of all it was 1/2 the money of the others. Bill

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ED5LZHHIUCCURQIIVMSNWNKC6A Bill

    Would it be a good idea to have every other round be a SHOTSHELL and then a .45 LONG COLT. The shotshells won’t go thru a car door at 20-25 ‘, but the .45 long colt sure would. I’m just askin’, as I don’t have one. yet, Bill

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ED5LZHHIUCCURQIIVMSNWNKC6A Bill

    My wife loves her Baby Glock (M26). I’ve heard (from gunsmith’s) that the Kimber’s have MIM parts in them. That’s powdered metal pressed into a gun part. I don’t like that idea at all. But I will say all the Kimber’s I’ve shot really did well. Very accurate out of the box. Run about 50’000 rounds thru them and I’ll put my money on the Glock! They’re ugly, but they just keep on keepin’ on. Bill

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ED5LZHHIUCCURQIIVMSNWNKC6A Bill

    Great little pistols! the only problem is you have to sell your car and your boat to be able to afford one. But I would like to have one anyway! Bill

  • bullet1943

    Interesting comments. I had forgotten about the Makarov, and it surely is a fine little pistol with AK-like reliability and function. No doubt that there are some really nice new 9mm’s on the market now, and were I a richer person, there are a few I’d like to have. However, I try to stay with proven reliable pistols that are within my retired “senior citizen” price range. I do prefer new pistols, but often buy used ones. As with used cars tho, I check them out thoroughly before I buy, and after buying I really put them through a torture test. Having said that- I recently went looking for a more concealable carry firearm that fit my 2 requirements of being dead nut reliable, and fitting into the front pocket of my Levi’s. After trying out many, and soon as I get some bucks up, I’ve pretty much decided to go with a little Taurus .380 semi-auto. (I think it’s the Model 729?) At a recent gun show, my friend picked a new one up for $270, and a few days ago we took it to the range and were very impressed with it. Shot a lot of Remington and CCI ammo through it with nary a misfire or malfunction. This weekend we’ll try some of the “hot load” .380′s made by MagTech, Corbon and Winchester to make sure it eats them too. If it does, I’ll pick one up too.
    Discussions can go on endlessly, as to caliber and models, but for my purposes, I carry a Taurus MIllenium Pro .45 most of the time, however there are occasions where I need an even smaller firearm, and for under $300, the little Taurus .380 will fill the bill. I don’t want to sound like a Taurus salesman, but I might as well tell you that in my RV, and when I’m out prospecting, I carry a “Judge” loaded in this order: 3″.410 #4 shot, .410 Winchester PDX, .410 Winchester PDX, .45 LC, .45 LC.
    I love that damned ugly ol’ wart hog

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Arne-Boberg/1663849119 Arne Boberg

    Kel-Tec did not patent their design, so Ruger need not pay royatlties.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Arne-Boberg/1663849119 Arne Boberg

    We have several holster makers onboard offering very fine IWB, OWB, pocket and paddle holsters.

  • j w

    South American countries limit cartrige size to .380 for civilian use. Explains why Bersa and the other South American manufacteror’s invest so much in this caliber.

  • j w

    Not that I plan on shooting through car doors but I think alternating loads between the shotshells and .45 is a real good idea. .410 has a limited effective range fired out of a handgun….

  • disqus_BUc8dbVTlh

    HK P2000sk 9mm best!

  • valorius

    the pf9 will forever be known as the gun that killed trayvon martin- or saved george zimmerman- depending on your perspective.

  • valorius

    ive owned a kel tec p3at and a ruger lcp. the lcp is a much higher quality version of the same basic pistol design.